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2017.07.15 11:04

Replica 300B Review

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eplica300B-1 copy.jpg

좀 긴 글이라서 Part II 만 여기에 올립니다

http://www.dagogo.com/psvane-we-11-replica-300b-review   

http://www.dagogo.com/psvane-we-11-replica-300b-review

Psvane WE 1:1 Replica 300B Review

By:  | July 2015

Big Es?

Yes. It’s Audio Note’s working title for a new speaker that if development goes according to plan will be available by the end of this year. The prototypes use a 10” mid/woofer and a silk domed tweeter in a cabinet that to my eye looks to be about a third larger in volume than the 70 litres of the E, but which retains the E’s familiar height, depth and width ratio, and a rear mounted port; in other words to all intents they are Es on steroids able to drive larger rooms.

Those readers who have visited Audio Note’s premises in Hove will now be picturing the venue in their mind, but for those that haven’t, a word or two of scene-setting is in order. The room is approximately 20ft square, lined floor to ceiling on three walls with part of Peter Qvortrup’s huge record collection. Curtains cover a bay window that forms the fourth wall. Fitted floor carpet, soft furnishings and the record sleeves all contribute to making the space extremely well acoustically damped.

The Quest monoblocks were playing when I arrived, Dale still being in the throes of demonstrating the system to a prospective customer. The Quests were fitted with Sovtek 300Bs, so after the customer had left we four listened to the system as it was for a while to sharpen our appetites before diving into the main course, so to speak.

The big Es sounded promising, clearly able to move a remarkable volume of air, but also clearly still a work in progress. Was it a unanimous decision? I can’t remember, but after a short while we agreed to swap out the Big Es for a pair of E-Ds, this being a reference speaker we were all familiar with and which would enable us to concentrate just on the differences between the tubes.

First disc on the CD player was Pure Maria Callas, a selection of re-mastered arias released by Warner Classics. My notes on the Sovteks during La Habanera from Carmen, and then when we swapped to Joy Williams’ solo album Venus and the opening track “Before I Sleep”, say ‘powerful bass, dry midrange, restricted top end – rather grey and dead sounding.’

We then changed to the Psvane WE Replicas, played the same tracks and were rewarded by a much more enhanced sense of dynamic flow, of micro dynamics and openness. My notes say: Voices comparatively glowing’, strings have a better sense of wood and gut.’ It was clear to all of us that the Psvanes were in a different league to the Sovteks. Still, it was confusing material to my ears. I felt we needed something simpler, primarily acoustic, and unprocessed, in order to make a meaningful evaluation of the abilities of the replicas against the real deals.

This is a personal prejudice but I fancy it is shared by a lot of Dagogo readers: first and foremost I want an audio system to reproduce as accurately and entertainingly as possible the sound of the human voice and of acoustic instruments. If a system can nail those well, then as far as I am concerned it can take its chances with electronic instruments. They’re not real and therefore I care far less for how they are reproduced.

Peter obliged by handing over a copy of the Saturday Sessions 2011. I’ve referenced this compilation previously in reviews and do so again here because it contains stand-out live performances, some of them purely acoustic, that are simply well recorded and which, unlike much modern output, have not been processed to within an inch of their lives.

Know Adele’s “Rolling in The Deep” in her studio album 21? She sings the same song on The Saturday Sessions 2011, but does so live and against the simple backdrop of a gently strummed, acoustic guitar. Partly because of the simplicity of the arrangement, and partly because of the truly excellent recording, it could be a different song to the version on 21. The Psvanes gave a good account of themselves, showing the power and weight of Adele’s voice and leaving us with a good impression of the acoustic of the space in which the track was recorded.

Track six on the same CD is Florence & The Machine’s “Cosmic Love”, a much busier song which, again, the Psvanes coped with well, in particular portraying the acoustic guitar with a very satisfying weight and tonality and Florence’s curious vocal style to good effect. Further on still, on the same CD, Foster The People deliver an entirely acoustic version of “Pumped Up Kicks” – a somewhat controversial ditty whose lyrics, set to an infectious guitar rhythm tell of a kid planning to shoot up his classmates. Foster’s vocals are given a touch of reverb and backed with an acoustic bass guitar, as well as the choppy six-string. The Psvanes had all four of us nodding and foot tapping to the track, even if at the same time we were wincing at the lyrics.

I turned the Quests off and allowed the Psvanes a few minutes to cool before removing them and inviting Peter to choose and load up the first of his WE originals. My reluctance to get physically involved with the WEs caused some mirth, but having seen the prices they now fetch I really did not wish to be responsible should something let go with unfortunate timing. While Peter was doing this, I asked him how many pairs of WE originals he owns. “Let’s just say that I have a suitable selection of various vintages” was his enigmatic and smiling reply.

Peter stepped back from the Quests and said he’d chosen the 98s, so we were going to hear the three pairs of WEs youngest-to-oldest.

The 98s were, as students of Western Electric history will know, manufactured by the resurrected brand using original machinery and know-how after it was bought by American investor and audiophile Charles Whitener. I had encountered so-called re-issued WEs before – my pal Malcolm is banking on multiple pairs delivering his pension income in France. While I applaud Malcolm’s enterprise and I am confident that he’ll get his money back in spades, each time I have heard the reissues I have thought them to be rather ho-hum.

In the Quest amplifiers and in the rather sweaty heat of the Audio Note demo suite, the 98s sounded very different to the Psvane 300B replicas. The WEs struck all of us as being smoother and less granular, with a richer tonality in the midband but with less bite to the leading edge of notes, and less top end, too, than the Psvanes.

Before switching back to the Chinese tubes we put a Psvane and a WE side by side for physical comparison. The Psvane’s plate is shorter than that of the 98 WE by some four to five mm, and the glass envelope is shorter too by a similar amount, but in every other respect the construction of the two makes looked very similar.

I returned the Psvanes to the Quests and we played the same tracks again. My notes say: “More air. Much more. Greater sense of recording space. Greater separation between instruments. More transparency. More bass too. Greyer than the 98 WEs. They sound more hifi.”

Andy turned to me. “Hmmm. These might become a bit wearing after a while in comparison.”

As he stepped forward to swap out the Psvanes for the 88 WEs, Peter observed that the curves on the Psvanes are hard to distinguish from those of the WEs. “It’s not a curve trace issue. There is something else. The old 4242 and the 211 with its carbon anode sounded so different. When Western Electric stopped 300B production in 1988 they had exhausted their stock of original grid wire.”

Peter was not necessarily asserting that materials are everything, I am sure. But, and having heard so many more tubes from different sources than most of us will in a lifetime, he was voicing the obvious question of what is it that makes one tube sound so very different from another. They can measure the same or similarly, but they sound very different. How so?

Wrapped in thought, we settled back to listen to the 88s. I felt they were different to the ‘98s, but the differences were less so than those between the 98s and the Psvanes. I heard a slightly richer and more fleshed out midband than delivered by the ‘98s, but voices were smaller, as if the sonic picture had been through a too-hot wash cycle. They were very smooth and a bit recessed.

Of the four of us, Dale was least impressed. “They sound quite artificial. I preferred the ‘98s.” I looked at Andy, but he just sucked his teeth, and Peter simply smiled his enigmatic smile.

Our expectations of NoS tubes are often tempered by experience. How many are truly new old stock? Are we buying tubes that really have never been used or are we buying tubes that have been pulled from equipment that has seen some – perhaps a lot – of service? While I am not particularly wishing to advertise for Peter and big-up the provenance of his tube collection, if there was one person I know of that can be pretty much banked upon to buy right, it is PQ.

I didn’t think Dale was wrong. I thought the ‘88s sounded tight, as in virgin. Having heard the Psvane TIIs take some 200 hours to open up, I felt that with some mileage on them the ‘88s would likely sound a lot more entertaining.

I turned the Quests off and again we left the tubes to cool for a few minutes. There was more mirth while I stepped back and invited Peter forward to effect the tube change. The ‘78s went into the sockets (oh Lordy, how much are they worth?), the Quests were flipped on again and we again sat back to listen.

This was a key moment in the afternoon and, for me at least, wholly unexpected. My notes (and my overuse of exclamation marks): ‘78s. Air! Attack! Bigger voice! Bottom end weight and lovely top. Really quite wonderfully lovely. Much more like the Psvanes than the other two WEs” (my original underlining).

Yes. You read it right. The Psvanes were most like the ’78 WEs. At least that’s what I thought.

Startled by what I was hearing I looked at the other three and said: “These have all of those things, but more richness and colour, too, than the Psvanes. They are very good.”

Peter, smiling still more broadly, and said rhetorically: “Assuming the ‘88s and ‘78s use the same grid wire, why would they sound as different as they do? And would the 88s and 98s sound as good as the 78s if they were aged for as long?”

That is an apposite question indeed. And one might add: “How would Psvane’s 1:1 Replica 300Bs sound given 37 years of maturation, too?”

Let me be clear about this as I wind towards the conclusion of this review: I am not saying that we four thought the Psvanes to be as good as the ’78 WEs, but, and my word, for the money the replicas made a damned good fist of getting close. We all thought the Psvanes to be more granular and lacking, too, in the WEs’ nth degree of glorious tonality. But in many other respects, and given the price differential, they came commendably close.

My own view is that the Psvane WE 300B 1:1 Replicas might be classified as more ‘modern’ sounding than the WEs. They don’t deliver the dry, bright and pushy sound of the current crop of eastern European tubes, but at the same time neither do they have quite the midrange lushness and sophistication of the real deals that we compared them with on that warm afternoon in Hove.

If you can afford to own original vintage Western Electric 300Bs, then may I be allowed to salute you for your hard work and for your good taste? The WEs are what I would buy, if I had the money.

Alas I do not. If you, too, have a similar cost-conscious relationship with the 300B – loving it for its sometimes sublime musicality but hating it for the damage it can do to the household budget – then the Psvane 300B 1:1 Replicas may suit you very well. In my view, the Psvanes give those of us in the cheap seats a much more affordable alternative to the Western Electric 300B, and one that, within its limitations, is still eminently musically satisfying.

In closing, I extend my thanks to Peter Qvortrup for the trusting and generous loan of the trio of Western Electric pairs, and to Dale Linzey for tolerating with good humour our temporary occupation of his demonstration environment.

  1. Ostap

    July 28, 2015 at 6:36 am PST

    If ” the Psvane TIIs take some 200 hours to open up ” then an ” apples to apples ” comparison might be more attainable and realistic after 400+ hours of use. A tube dating from ’88 would surely have at least twice that many hours of use on it. Another thought – if the original WE units were meant to last 40,000 hours of use would they reach a point where their ” sound signature ” had ” aged ” , like a fine wine, to their ultimate point of enjoyment?

    Reply

  2. Dave Smith

    August 14, 2015 at 7:22 am PST

    I recently installed a matched pair of the Psvane WE 300b tubes in my Chalice Audio ‘Grail’ monoblock SET amps . About 2 months prior i installed 2 matched pairs of the WE 845s and were very happy with their contribution to the improvent in my system’s sound. The 300bs have improved the sound even more … even at only ~ 100 hrs. They are great tubes..

    Reply

  3. Richard Fielding

    March 20, 2017 at 6:45 pm PST

    I have just installed a pair of Psvan 300B WE replicas in my Quest Silvers (M3 pre, AN/E, Voyd “The Voyd”, Graham I, Transfiguration Phoenix, ANS wiring throughout). Have to say noticeably different from the old AN 300Bs that came with the Quests that died after a cap blew in one of the Quests. Fresh from the box they seem slightly hard in their sound, but great upper extension (I’m going deaf so upper ranges are harder for me to discern but there is a clarity to the upper range that is refreshing to me (after listening to Spendor SP1s for many years, I realised with the AN/Es how rolled off at the top are the Spendors). The imaging is now much improved as is the space around the instruments. Bass isn’t as forward as with the AN300Bs. The music seems to have more “mood” – Prokofiev’s Autumnal Symphony has a brooding feeling that makes me want to reach for a sweater (despite it being 26 degrees). Aretha Franklin’s rendition of “This Bitter Earth”, (After Hours, Columbia 40708) small room intimacy has superb string projection, while “Once in a lifetime” has me choking on the cigarette smoke of the humid evening atmosphere of a nightclub. Did I say the bass wasn’t as forward? Much tighter and with more punch on this record. As with all AN kit it is the software that is so varied each record has different recording characteristics – more or less compression. Then Misty…oh lordy Aretha. I think I’ll stop here can’t concentrate.

    Reply

  • profile
    KDK 2017.07.15 11:19

    윗글의 결론입니다 --> they came commendably close.

     

    Let me be clear about this as I wind towards the conclusion of this review: I am not saying that we four thought the Psvanes to be as good as the ’78 WEs, but, and my word, for the money the replicas made a damned good fist of getting close. We all thought the Psvanes to be more granular and lacking, too, in the WEs’ nth degree of glorious tonality. But in many other respects, and given the price differential, they came commendably close.

  • profile
    KDK 2017.07.15 17:34

    eBay 에서 복각 300B가 한쌍에 $700 정도 입니다
    중국제는 산다면 신용 할수있는 곳에서 사십시요.

  • ?
    KYJ 2017.07.16 11:42
    수십년전, 오디오 라는 잡지에서 WE300B와 여러 회사에서 나온 짝퉁 300B를 체계적(?!)으로 비교 분석한 아티클이 있었다. 그 때만 해도 WE300B가 재생산 되기 시작하여 한 쌍에 거금500불을 호가하였고 이 진공관은 나무로 만든 보석상자에 넣어 팔았었던 기억이 난다. 그 때도 그런 느낌이 들었지만 과연 이런 평가가 어느 정도의 객관성이 있을까 의문이 든다.
    만일 불라인드 테스트를 수천번 반복하여 결과를 집계해 본다면? 내 추측으로는 아마도 50:50으로 나올 것 같다.
    아주 엉터리로 만들지 않았다면 진공관 차이에서 기인한 음질의 차이보다는 출력트랜스의 성능차이에 기인한 음질의 차이가 더 클것 같다.
    하기는 볼륨 콘트롤에 사용한 가변저항기의 소리(?!)를 구별할 수 있다고 주장하는 사람들에게는 음질의 차이가 확연히 구별될 수 있을 것이다.
    나는? 나는 도저히 진공관에 기인하는 음질의 차이를 구별할 수 없을 것 같다. 그러니 중국제에 700불씩 주고 살 기분은 절대로 들지 않을 것 같다. 또 이놈들은 가짜가 너무 많아 믿을 수가 없다. 날계란도 가짜를 만들어 파는 놈들이니 믿을 수가 있나?!
  • ?
    이지오디오 2017.07.17 00:19

    진공관의 커브 트레이서 측정 자료가 95% 이상의 성능을 설명해 준다는 생각을 합니다.

    한조에 167.9USD에 구입한 PSvane 300B 진공관의 특성을 금동님 도움으로 측정해 보았습니다. 금동님께 감사드립니다. WE 300B 와 비교하여 직진성은 큰 차이는 없어 보였고 양극저항이 앰프 설계 동작점에서 975옴으로 WE 300B에 비해 더 높았습니다. 직진성 부분은 WE 300B 의 SPICE 모델링 데이타와 면밀히 비교해볼 필요가 있습니다.

    글의 본문에서 이야기처럼 300B 회사에 따라 소리가 다르게 느낄 수 있는 것 같습니다. 글은 결론은 PSvane 300B classic replica가 낮은 가격에도 불구하고 오리지널에 비해 소리톤은 떨어지지만 상당히 WE 300B의 소리에 근접한다는 결론입니다.

    300B 매니아들은 300B가 직열 3극관이기에 진공관 특성에서 보여주지 않는 소리를 들려준다고 주장합니다. 색으로 표현하면 극단적인 예로 일반 진공관들은 8비트 즉, 256가지 색 표현이 가능한데 직열 3극관은 24비트색 즉, 16,777,216 가지 색표현이 가능하기에 24비트에 해당하는 직열 3극관은 더 생생한 우수한 해상도의 소리를 들려준다고 합니다(색 표현은 제 개인적인 생각을 적은 것입니다). 물론 이에 대한 과학적인 근거는 없습니다.

    마이오디오랩 2차 오프라인 모임에서는 직열 3극관 혹은 5극관의 앰프 즉, PSvane 300B, 8042, 4P1L, 808, 845와 강기동 박사님께서 발굴하신 TV Sweep 수평 진공관 앰프를 동일 드라이브 & 출력 트랜스를 통해 블라인드 테스트로 소리가 차이가 있는지 검증할 필요가 있는 것으로 생각됩니다.

  • profile
    KDK 2017.07.17 14:33

    가까운 장래에 한번 계획해 보십시요
    여러사람이 자기작품 선보이고 평가하고 평가받고 --

    동경 주택지 가까운 곳에 Sound shop Big 라는 Audio 동호인들의 집합소 가 있다고 합니다.
    Shishido 의 300B Amp 도 여기서 많은 분들에게 좋은 평을 받았습니다. 300B 가 귀해지자 값싼 808 로 300B 를 대채 한것이 대 Hit 했습니다.
    Sound Shop 주인이 808 소리에 반해서 발벗고 나서서 북치고 장구치고 Kit 도 만들고 --- 아마도 자작 kit 합처서 1000대

    정도의 808 Amp 가 일본서 만드러젔다고 봅니다. 독일서는 250대 가 상품화 ??

    Audio Lab 에서는 6-7대?



    같은 300B Amp 도 만드는 사람마다 모두 다 소리가 다르다고 봅니다. 여기다 진공관을 바꾸면 그변수는 무한히 증가 하겠지요.

  • profile
    KDK 2017.07.17 16:38
    RSY님도 300B Amp만드신 걸로 알고있는데 --글 올려주십시요

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  13. 808 nos on eBay -Spain

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-X-CRC-808-TUBE-808-RCA-TUBE-OLD-TRIODE-NOS-NIB-1945-S-C4-/311911273879?hash=item489f5c5597:g:sb0AAOSwTf9ZXoGy NOS 가 확실한 것 같습니다
    Date2017.07.10 ByKDK Reply7 Views1174 file
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  14. 300B SE Amp - Chinese made

    qq
    Date2017.07.07 ByKDK Reply11 Views332 file
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  15. Direct drive - 나의 생각

    Date2017.07.07 ByKDK Reply1 Views202 file
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  16. 300B Amp CR 하고 직결 비교

    ㅋ 1998년 1월에 발행한 MJ "300B Amp 걸작선"에 올려저 있는 글입니다 정특성 동작상태를 똑같이 유지 하기위한 회로 설계입니다 CR 하고 직결 특성은 -한국서 배운 표현으로는 - 오차 번위내에서 같다고 볼수있습니다. 저자의 청감글은 FM반송 듣고 놀랐다...
    Date2017.07.05 ByKDK Reply3 Views326 file
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  17. No Image

    SET 암프에서 캪 카풀링, 트랜스 카풀링, 혹은 직결? 어느 카풀링이 좋을까?

    여기 이 문제에 대한 토론이 있어 퍼왔습니다.  한번 읽어 볼만 합니다. If building a 300B SE, what would be more prefer for coupling between driver and output stage? Interstage transformer or capacitor coupled? I've seen someone built an amp wi...
    Date2017.06.29 ByKYJ Reply7 Views496
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  18. LP소리가 최고 ? 그럴수도

    LP-->돌아가는 홈에 바늘이 녹음 돌아가는홈에서 바늘이 취음 하는 원리는 140년이 지난 지금도 달라진것이 없습니다 - Edison이 1877년에 발명 했습니다. 반도체개발을 전문으로한 저에게는 이런 기계식 음성 녹음/재생장치가 아직도 현역으로 살아나고있다...
    Date2017.06.28 ByKDK Reply3 Views166 file
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  19. 또 다른 일본인 진공관 암프 대가?!

    Dreaming. Again. "This guy is one of the best audio designers alive and deserves to be known as such." Don Garber on Nori Komuro "Komuro is most likely the best tube circuit designer alive. His design goals are always clean, clear, wide-ban...
    Date2017.06.26 ByKYJ Reply1 Views2787
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  20. 2nd Harmonics -- 좋은소리 관계

    Date2017.06.26 ByKDK Reply1 Views140 file
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  21. 戦艦武蔵の最期 --일본말

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwY3VoBTe7Q&t=27s 금년에 새로나온 u-tube 영상입니다. 비행기의 보호없이 죽으로 나간 - Warship Musashi - 일본의 한 전함의최후 --미국의 해저 탐색가가 발견해서 수집한 재료로 산산조각이 됀 세계에서 최강전함 (Y...
    Date2017.06.25 ByKDK Reply0 Views138 file
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